Thursday, August 16, 2007
RANDOM ORATION POST
James Bryce-1886 on the government of ireland bill b 1838 (he must have been living at the printing of the book)
What did the united states do when the civil war came to an end? first of all, they tried the experiment of governing the southern states by MILITARY OCCUPATION, and they found that that SYSTEM BROKE DOWN, because it was IMPOSSIBLE to keep the people in subjection and the country tranquil by military force alone. then they tried to govern it by the disfranchisement of all who took part in the war against the union: and they handed over the government to the negroes and a number of northern adventurers, and that system broke down(can you say green zone?). outrages, perpetrated on the negroes or on the northern men who had come down to the calolinas and tennessee, became frequent, and could not be checked by civil authorities. the condition of things in the south during those years was a scandal to the country.
then, at last, WITH STRONG PRACTICAL SENSE which becomes a free people, and which especially distinguishes the people of america, THEY CAME BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL PRINCIPLES. They set up the southern states as self-governing communities on the old lines; they restored the suffrage TO ALL CITIZENS, declaring those who had taken part in the war to be exempt from further consequences; and then the outrages came to an end(sort of), and those disorderly southern communities became speedily prosperous and law abiding. the example of the united states is the strongest possible case you could have to show that a democratic system MUST BE TRUE TO ITSELF, and that only SO CAN IT SUCCEED.
James Bryce-1886 on the government of ireland bill b 1838 (he must have been living at the printing of the book)
What did the united states do when the civil war came to an end? first of all, they tried the experiment of governing the southern states by MILITARY OCCUPATION, and they found that that SYSTEM BROKE DOWN, because it was IMPOSSIBLE to keep the people in subjection and the country tranquil by military force alone. then they tried to govern it by the disfranchisement of all who took part in the war against the union: and they handed over the government to the negroes and a number of northern adventurers, and that system broke down(can you say green zone?). outrages, perpetrated on the negroes or on the northern men who had come down to the calolinas and tennessee, became frequent, and could not be checked by civil authorities. the condition of things in the south during those years was a scandal to the country.
then, at last, WITH STRONG PRACTICAL SENSE which becomes a free people, and which especially distinguishes the people of america, THEY CAME BACK TO THEIR ORIGINAL PRINCIPLES. They set up the southern states as self-governing communities on the old lines; they restored the suffrage TO ALL CITIZENS, declaring those who had taken part in the war to be exempt from further consequences; and then the outrages came to an end(sort of), and those disorderly southern communities became speedily prosperous and law abiding. the example of the united states is the strongest possible case you could have to show that a democratic system MUST BE TRUE TO ITSELF, and that only SO CAN IT SUCCEED.
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Good point. The South certainly returned to its original principles, all right - which in that case meant 75 years of Jim Crow.
The larger point holds, though - you can't make a people change their ways by destroying their government and occupying their land. If anything, you risk reinforcing those principles that you sought to reform in the first place.
The larger point holds, though - you can't make a people change their ways by destroying their government and occupying their land. If anything, you risk reinforcing those principles that you sought to reform in the first place.
so true, but it turned out the only solution that 'worked'. certainly lynchings continued. but with black 'equality', the situation improved.
they restored the suffrage TO ALL CITIZENS
except for all the women kind of CITIZENS.
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except for all the women kind of CITIZENS.
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# posted by 
: 10:05 PM
: 10:05 PM
then they tried to govern it by the disfranchisement of all who took part in the war against the union: and they handed over the government to the negroes and a number of northern adventurers, and that system broke down(can you say green zone?).
No, they didn't try to exclude "all who took part in the war against the union". They attempted to ban former Confederate military officials and political leaders from voting or holding office for a duration of time following the war / during reconstruction. The gov wasn't "handed over" to the "negroes and a number of northern adventurers" but rather was subjected to the decisions of Congress controlled by the Republican party and enforced by the Union army. Blacks won overwhelming victories (hundreds) in some state legislators during reconstruction - especially in states like S. Carolina (including 6 Congressional Reps) and Miss.(including 2 Senators) - by being freely elected to those positions. And because they outnumbered voting whites and participating delegates in some states at that time. In 1867 76% of the delegates to the state constitutional convention were "freedmen" Blacks. Eventually, because of white supremacist / pro-confed resistance to the advances reconstruction made especially with respect to voting and elections and civil rights many of those advances made were rolled back ("black codes" etc...were enacted) Congress eventually passed federal civil rights legislation which ultimately forced the south to at least grant (in theory) suffrage and other civil rights... nonetheless... poll taxes and Jim Crow laws became the norm as post reconstruction south did everything it could to curtail or erode civil and equal rights and suffrage advances. The green zone comparison doesn't work here because the south wasn't occupied or governed by a foreign national occupying power. The south was a part of the US before the confederacy rebeled. If anything it was the Confederacy which attempted to construct its own "green zone" in the United States.
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No, they didn't try to exclude "all who took part in the war against the union". They attempted to ban former Confederate military officials and political leaders from voting or holding office for a duration of time following the war / during reconstruction. The gov wasn't "handed over" to the "negroes and a number of northern adventurers" but rather was subjected to the decisions of Congress controlled by the Republican party and enforced by the Union army. Blacks won overwhelming victories (hundreds) in some state legislators during reconstruction - especially in states like S. Carolina (including 6 Congressional Reps) and Miss.(including 2 Senators) - by being freely elected to those positions. And because they outnumbered voting whites and participating delegates in some states at that time. In 1867 76% of the delegates to the state constitutional convention were "freedmen" Blacks. Eventually, because of white supremacist / pro-confed resistance to the advances reconstruction made especially with respect to voting and elections and civil rights many of those advances made were rolled back ("black codes" etc...were enacted) Congress eventually passed federal civil rights legislation which ultimately forced the south to at least grant (in theory) suffrage and other civil rights... nonetheless... poll taxes and Jim Crow laws became the norm as post reconstruction south did everything it could to curtail or erode civil and equal rights and suffrage advances. The green zone comparison doesn't work here because the south wasn't occupied or governed by a foreign national occupying power. The south was a part of the US before the confederacy rebeled. If anything it was the Confederacy which attempted to construct its own "green zone" in the United States.
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# posted by : 10:58 PM
: 10:58 PM
well, i was commenting to what he said. but he was brittish, so he probably didn't have all the facts.
course i all that is in history books is carpetbaggers.
if anything, this just shows, the path america is on in iWaq ain't gonna work, and they didn't even have al KKKaeda back then.
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course i all that is in history books is carpetbaggers.
if anything, this just shows, the path america is on in iWaq ain't gonna work, and they didn't even have al KKKaeda back then.
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